===MTF "Reverse Kettle Sour"===
Devin Bell has experienced getting good sourness by co-pitching probiotics with ''L. plantarum'' with yeast, or even after primary fermentation (also known as the "Reverse MTF Sour"). It is claimed that this method allows the yeast character Moved to be expressed more so than with kettle sours. In the case of pitching ''L. plantarum'' after fermentation, the beer turned out like a sour saison, where as co-pitched makes for a better Berliner Weisse or Gose style beer without the "saison" yeast character. This has also improved head retention in his beers. Using no hops seems to be required in order to get acid production from the ''L. plantarum'' probiotics after primary fermentation. Devin clarified that his "best success" is pitching ''S. cerevisiae'' saison strain with a selection of [[Mixed_Fermentation#Souring_Without_Brettanomyces|Mixed Fermentation; Souring Without ''Brettanomyces'' for primary fermentation. After 5-7 days of fermentation, he pitches ''L. plantarum'' (2 shots of GoodBelly or 1 package of Omega Labs OYL-605 for 5-6 gallons of beer) <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1739156616112545/?comment_id=1739183316109875&reply_comment_id=1739749539386586&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D Devin Bell. Milk The FunkFacebook group. 06/30/2017.]</ref>. Once terminal gravity is reached (1.002-1.004), he bottles right away. The bottles can be served at 8 weeks in the bottle, but start to peak at 24 weeks. This process is really more of a short term [[Mixed Fermentation]] <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1562696320425243/?comment_id=1562702310424644&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R0%22%7D MTF discussion with Devin Bell on "reverse MTF kettle sour. 01/26/2017.]</ref>. See also [https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1217518078276404/ this thread by Devin Bell] and [https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1728489143845959/ this thread by Caroline Whalen Taggart]. * [https://www.facebook.com/SouthernBrewersConference/videos/881235365357984/ Devin Bell and Dan Pixley presentation at SBC 2017 on quick souring, including more details on this method.]
===General Tips and Experiences on Using Probiotics===