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Sources for Lactic Acid Bacteria, especially ''[[Lactobacillus]]'', are available in various forms such as unpasteurized products and probiotics. This page contains a list of sources that Milk The Funk members have experimented with, and their results. Note that the production of products such as probiotics may not be as sanitary as brewing industry yeast manufacturers, so without isolating these bacteria on agar plates, they can not cannot be considered pure cultures. Methods contained on this page use only materials that a typical homebrewer would have on hand and are geared towards brewers without agar plating capabilities. For information on isolating pure cultures of ''Lactobacillus'' with selective media on agar plates, see the [[Lactobacillus#Selecting_for_on_Agar|''Lactobacillus'']] and [[Wild_Yeast_Isolation|wild yeast isolation]] pages.
==Yogurt Souring==
==Culturing from Probiotics==
Some commercial probiotics have been successfully used to produce ''Lactobacillus'' cultures (many brands have also failed at providing usable bacteria according to some homebrewers <ref>[http://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/32tny4/probiotic_lacto_for_souring/cqej952 Conversation on Reddit. April 2015.]</ref>). Probiotics that are classified as "dietary supplimentssupplements", as opposed to "drugs", may not be as free of contaminates as pure cultures from brewing industry yeast labs <ref>[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3294522/ Regulatory Oversight and Safety of Probiotic Use. Veena Venugopalan, Kimberly A. Shriner, and Annie Wong-Beringer. Nov 2010.]</ref>. The following probiotics are examples of brands, methods, and results that MTF members have had <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1075891152439098/ Conversation on MTF about using Probiotics. 5/22/2015.]</ref>. Dried forms of ''Lactobacillus'' should be stored refrigerated because viability has been seen to decrease as much as 80x when stored at room temperatures <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1067614393266774/ Conversation with Bryan of Sui Generis Blog on Milk The Funk. 05/04/2015.]</ref>. Use only fresh products whenever possible (viability of ''Lactobacillus'' drops quickly over time in general), avoid products that have been stored at room temperature (pill and liquid format), and don't bother using expired products <ref>[http://goodbelly.com/faq/ GoodBelly FAQ. Retrieved 07/23/2016.]</ref>. Making a starter is a good way to ensure that the cells are still viable.
See [http://suigenerisbrewing.blogspot.ca/2015/07/choosing-right-probiotics-for-souring.html this Sui Generis Blog article on which Probiotics to avoid based on the genera of microbes they contain]. Probiotics should have their contents listed plainly on their packaging. Avoid probiotics for animals as they tend to contain organisms that produce off-flavors such as ''Enterococcus'', ''Clostridium'', or ''Bacillus'' <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1195902047104674/?comment_id=1195949307099948&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D Conversation with DeWayne Schaaf on MTF. 12/17/2015.]</ref>.
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| Matt Firetto || Swanson Plantarum Probiotic Pills || Starter:
4 capsules Swanson Planatarum Plantarum probiotic in 1 liter of 1.040 wort fermented in high 70°'s F in garage.after After 36hr PH ~3.6 (using cheap wine PH strips) Tasted clean and noticebly noticeably sour with fairly strong yogurt like aroma. (not how I would want my beer to smell)
Starter chilled over night overnight and decanted most liquid before pitching
Single infusion mash all grains at 153°F for 1hr
After mashing and sparging, wort heated to 190°F for 10 minutes and cooled to 95°F for souring
used 12% acid malt in my mash to help drop the PH before adding the Lacto.
Wort PH 4.5 using colorphast colorfast strips
Wort gravity 1.040 pre boil/pre lacto
Pitched decanted lacto starter
I also drank this side by side with an Ithaca Cruiser Berliner Weiss.
Overall the beers were very similar. The Ithaca beer had a stronger grain aroma and a little less lactic sourdough aroma. Both beers seemed to have about the same perceived level of acidity.
The acidity in my beer was just a little more bright brighter than the Ithaca beer, but overall the two were very similar.
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| David Frank || Goodbelly GoodBelly Probiotic Drink || Warmed up 2 Goodbelly GoodBelly probiotic drinks to room temperature and then pitched it into unboiled wort(in a purged keg). Sour worted at 95°F. || Starting pH was around 4.7 (pre-acidified the mash).
ph at 3.73 after 15 hours
pH at 3.65 after 36 hours
pH at 3.5 after 48 hours - massive co2(and possibly ethanol) production...when I purged the keg, the beer exploded out. The keg was under around 30psi. Very messy to get it out of the keg and into the kettle.
Beer was then boiled for 20min, chilled and fermented with kolsch Kölsch yeast.
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| Brett Smith || Goodbelly GoodBelly Flavored Drinks Probiotic Drink || 700ml starter of 1.040 wort. Chill to 95°F. Fill to 1000 with Goodbelly GoodBelly drink. I like the mango as it doesn't seem to leave much aroma at all. Let this starter go for 24 hours. You'll see the massive growth.
Brew beer however you choose. Cool to 100°F. Pitch Goodbelly GoodBelly starter. Let temperature free fall. Check pH in 24 hours, should be 3.4-3.6. I like to let my culture go 36 hours and I'm almost guaranteed 3.4. Then pitch yeast to ferment.
|| Described this above.
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| Ed Coffey || Swansons Swanson's L. plantarum Probiotic Pills || Cracked open 3 pills and added to 750ml of DME starter wort, kept at 90°F for 36 hours then pitched into 100°F wort. || I've done this twice now, reached a PH of ~3.30 in 48 hours at 95-100°F.
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| Abel || Goodbelly GoodBelly Probiotic Drink || Let warm up to temp and pitch straight in. || Ph before 5.4, ph at the end was 3.2. Temp held at 95°F for 3.5 days then pitch Sacch and lowered to regular ferment temp.
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| Viktor Nyman || ProViva Superfrukt Probiotic Drink || Made a starter of 200 ml juice and 800 ml OG 1040 wort. Fermented at 35°C for a few days, cooled to refrigerator temperature and decanted into a sanitized container. A few days before the brew day, I made a new starter from the decanted bacteria and 500 ml of OG 1040 wort. Fermented at 35°C. Pitched the whole starter into a 15 litre batch. || The starter had a starting pH of 4.5 and was under 3 pH in 24 hours. This was when fermenting at 35°C.
| Allen Stone || LactoGG || 2 capsules were used in 1 liter of 1.030 wort, and held in high 90°F's for 72 hours before stepping up to 5 liters and pitched after another 7 days. The powder from the capsules fell to the bottom of the starter initially and needed rousing before it started fermenting. || I only had test strips, which indicated a ph in the high 3s. I tasted the wort at this point and it had produced some co2, but not much, and a slight tartness. I added Custersianus to ferment out and there has sat for many months. I sampled it recently and it is not great. Slightly tart, but not enough to stand on its own. I would like to do this again with more control, and build a small starter that is pitched into a larger volume of wort, then held at a higher temp. I suspect that because of the makeup of Lacto GG and its ability to survive internal body temp, it may need to work In the low 100s to really go to work. I would say it is a viable option, but not enough info is known at this time to give any suggestions.
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| Stuart Grant <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1147535555274657/ Stuart Grant's experience with Aussie probiotics. 10/15/2015.]</ref> || Ethical Nutrients - IBS Support (Australia) || Added 120 billion cells. Pitched at 29°C/84°F, and I'm letting it fall to room temp. 20 hours since pitching got to 3.87 pH. Temp has dropped to 20°C/68°F. No change in SG (1.045). After 25 hours, temp down to 19°C and pH down to 3.67. After 35 hours, temp 18°C, pH 3.53, SG 1.045 (unchanged). Lactic flavour is very clean; slightly appleyapple like. It barely tastes tart with all that sugar. After 44 hours, temp 18°C, pH 3.43, SG 1.045 (unchanged). I split the wort in half. First half I boiled for 20 mins with some hops then pitched US-05; second half I did not boil, but added dry hops and Lochristi Brett slurry. || The no-boil version which had Lochristi Brett added is down to 1.016 and pH 3.32, while the boiled version pitched with US-05 is down to 1.008 and pH 3.23 (weird that it's lower). Brett version is quite funky with some acetic acid. Clean version is super clean, and ready for bottling soon. Lovely clean sourness. The dry hops come across as lemon zesty. Superbly refreshing! See [https://thebeerminimum.wordpress.com/2015/09/16/kettle-souring-with-probiotics-australian-edition/ Stuart's blog post].
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| Marius Loktu <ref>[https://www.facebook.com/groups/MilkTheFunk/permalink/1287382624623282/?comment_id=1287392701288941&/reply_comment_id=1287403764621168&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R8%22%7D Conversation with Marius Loktu about Norwegian probiotics on MTF. 04/18/2016.] </ref> || ProbiMage melkesyrebakterier (available in [https://www.vitusapotek.no/probimage-melkesyrebakterier-40-kapsler/p/817233 Norway], [https://m.apoteket.se/produkter/208211 Sweden], and [https://www.nu3.dk/green-medicine-probimage-40-styk.html Denmark]) || I tend to use 6-8 per 20-25L. (just the content) Turning off heat at about 35C, rack to carboy and pitch content of capsules. Let it naturally reach ambient. Then I pitch yeast after 2-3 days. (always gets me below 3.5 PH) Always sticking with 0 IBU. Have started playing around with co-pitching and pitching lacto after the yeast as well. To get more yeast character from primary. It's Its capsules. So you just open them up and use the powder inside. It's good not having wet hands doing this. || Good results reported.
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==Using Ginger Bug==
Matt Spaanem on MTF on using ginger bug: "A ginger bug is just wild yeast and bacteria harvested from ginger root. Just grate up some ginger and add it to some sugar water. After a few days it starts visibly fermenting and you've got your bug... FG 0.995 makes this ~4.3% (OG ~1.028) uncarbed it's a bit dry/puckering/tannic (probably from the tea) with a friendly orangyorangey/coriander flavored tartness and some funk hiding in the background. Ginger follows you throughout and lingers on the tongue. Overall it's good , if a bit dry. I may chaptalize the keg if it still annoys me after it's its carbed. I should give these bugs a go in an all malt 'real' beer... it was pretty good carbed and dry. I've since used the bug to ferment an actual beer (with malt/grain derived sugars instead of just sucrose) and it was very attenuative and the ''Brettanomyces'' made itself known for sure, the ''Lactobacillus'' less so, the beer was hopped to 8 IBU. It was in primary for 5 months and has been in secondary for ~2 months to see if anything more happens with it.
As for using ginger bug, I just treat it like any other yeast culture. Once you harvest it from the shredded ginger mixed with sugar water pitch it into a larger batch, use some nutrient. I haven't done any isolating or looking at it under the microscope, but based on behaviors and flavors produced, I believe my bug contains ''Saccharomyces'', ''Brettanomyces'' and ''Lactobacillus'' (though maybe not ''Lactobacillus'' anymore after passing through hopped wort). Obviously you're not guaranteed to catch all of these, it depends on your piece of ginger used, but you're probably likely to catch some yeast and ''Lactobacillus''.